Burke And Paine In Dialogue  

By Eric Paine  

Edmund Burke portrait by Sir Joshua Reynolds - link
Edmund Burke portrait by Sir Joshua Reynolds – link

Paine: Hello Burkie, it’s a long time since we last met on planet earth, how have you been getting on in purgatory?  

Burke: Well bless my soul, it’s old Paine from cloud nine. They are not letting me out from purgatory yet, I got a special pass out for this meeting of earthies  celebrating my bicentenary. Up here it only seems like yesterday that you were  doing your best to change the tried and tested old order.  

P: Sorry if I’m a bit late but all these new methods of communicating through  the atmosphere seem to be effecting my wings. Before we start going over old  times I must say it’s a completely different world down there to what it was in our  day. Aeroplanes darting about all over the earth, motor cars and tractors making  horses redundant, and how I would have relished using their instant E-mail  instead of scribbling away millions of words with a quill and waiting ages for an  answer. Down there they seem to be in a similar turmoil regarding social change  as when our controversy raged in the 18th century.  

B: I don’t think I would want to go back there now; latest reports from new  arrivals up here say they are no happier. I still maintain it was a great pity you had  the audacity to produce that cursed book, Rights of Man in reply to my Reflections  on the Revolution in France. History repeated itself with revolutions in Russia, China  and elsewhere with little or nothing learned from the French revolution, or any  other bloody or so-called democratic revolution. Allow power to the masses and  sooner or later a dominant elite emerges producing anarchy, sometimes terror  and general chaos. In the end the vast majority end up far worse than before they  started disturbing time-honoured rule by kings, aristocrats and bishops. I vividly  remember saying in a speech in the House of Commons as I threw my sword on  the floor, ‘this is what we get from an alliance with France, nothing but PAINE,  PAINE, PAINE!’  

P: Oh, dear, you have not changed a bit and it looks like you never will get into  the highest celestial spheres. A fat lot of good it did you clinging to the Catholic  faith. I got rid of all denominational baggage and I reckon I did far more good in  the world than you ever did. You will never meet up with such enlightened souls as  Socrates, Bruno and Gandhi as I have.  

B: Didn’t they see through you?  

P: Very funny, but you did serve a purpose because had you not written  Reflections I might never have written Rights of Man, which sold far more copies  than your book. Equal rights for all had to be spelt out and that the old order of  oppression of the poor by monarchies, aristocracy and the church had to be  overturned everywhere. True, the results to date have been rather patchy and in  many parts of the world there is still a long way to go, but my ideas for free  education, democracy, embryo social security and many other things way ahead of  our time eventually came to pass in more advanced countries. That book became  the bible of the poor and it sold a million and a half copies before I got called up. Did you ever go to prison for your principles as I did and was nearly executed in Paris?  

B: You were always good at blowing your own trumpet.  

P: You prospered on earth as a paid hack whereas I gave away most of my  earnings to the causes of freedom, or others made money out of my works. And  look where it got you in terms of eternity. How ever did you manage to sleep at  night after wriggling out of paying back that loan you used to purchase your  estate? And you were paid a huge pension by George III.  

B: That is none of your business – and why have they not put up a statue in the  House of Commons to you like they have for me?  

P: That is no honour as you were a party to protecting their vested interests. I  always said principles before parties otherwise parties rule principles and I reckon  I have lived up to that. You completely ignored the causes of the French  Revolution; the exploitation of the poor for many centuries by rulers with  inherited rights and privileges even more so than in Britain and god knows that  was bad enough. You were utterly heedless of the profligacy of the court and the  duplicity of the church. You kept the profit from the sale of your book, whereas I  received a prosecution for Rights of Man and was outlawed from Britain. I don’t  suppose you ever read Tom Erskine’s defence of me.  

B: Your ego is as big as ever and I do not know how I put up with you when you  came to stay with us for a few days after American independence. You were always  too acerbic, dogmatic and a rabble rousing zealot. You took away the peoples faith  in the bible and the church, which has always been a great source of comfort and  consolation. You fostered hatred and discontent causing many innocent people to  cross over early. Earthies are just incapable of living together harmoniously when  they are given silly notions about their rights, which you implanted. Duties before  rights I say and you get less fights. Have you noticed they put up a statue to me in  Washington and not one to you?  

P: I had noticed that and appropriately you are doing a sort of Hitler salute.  Have you heard the common saying: ‘you silly old Burke’, or, ‘you Burke’? I always  said rights should be united with the idea of duties; rights become duties by  reciprocity. Monuments don’t mean that much, but I confess I am chuffed that  there are monuments to me in Thetford, New Rochelle, Paris, Morristown,  Leicester, Lewes, Alford and now London for the commemoration of the 200th  anniversary of the publication of Rights of Man. There are probably more, but I  don’t go around looking for them. I hear they are to put up a statue of me in  Bordentown, where I was happiest in America. But let us not go into toting up  these memorials, it’s better that people concentrate upon living up to my  example. I was not perfect, whoever is?  

B: Well I have toted up the memorials world-wide and I come out well on top!  P: That is probably because you were buried in Westminster Abbey was it, and  gullible people thought you were automatically entitled to be honoured  elsewhere? Silly old William Cobbett dug my bones up ten years after I had  crossed over and took them to England with the intention of building a  mausoleum in my honour and giving me a decent burial, but he never got around to it and so, like Moses, I have no earthly sepulchre.  

B: Thank goodness for that. The less people know about you the better.  Encouraging people to get ideas above their stations only leads to the democratic  bog with everybody claiming equal rights when it’s not practical. If everybody is  somebody then nobody is anybody!!  

P: You old hornwogler, and I could say much worse. If mankind had clung to  your sort of philosophy, dogmas and creeds they would never have got to the  moon in 1969. I had ideas about bridges, including one across the English  Channel, but never thought it would be possible to go to the moon as earthies  now have. It’s likely they will be landing on Mars and other planets soon. Kings,  nobles, or as I have called them, NO-ABILITIES, popes and bishops would never  have allowed it. They wanted to hold people down in metu perpetuo (constant fear,  in case you have forgotten your Latin). Fancy Apollo going all that way in a few  days and Armstrong being able to wonder at the infinite greatness of the creator,  which is all a bit old hat to us now. Compare that with the months I spent crossing  the Atlantic in a sailing boat. Five times I did it. By the way, I doubt if earthies will  ever be able to stop Neptune over there colliding with Uranus every 117 years. You  could say that I and those who followed my lead opened up new vistas for  humanity, whilst you were only concerned to toady to the status quo and stifle progress. For my pains, after my death I was initially falsely portrayed as a  devil-shaped shuttlecock, tossed between fanatical and infidel rackets.  

B: There you go again, soaring off into flights of fancy, kidding yourself you are a  stupor mundi (wonder of the world). You bring on analysis paralysis. I think it is  very wrong for earthies to be spending all that money on space exploration when  they have so many better things they could be doing. They want to clean up on  pollution down there before they start messing about on other planets.  

P: For once we agree. Earthies must give that a much higher priority. If they are  not careful they will completely mess up the whole ecosystem and they should  immediately stop playing around with those dreadful nuclear weapons. I claimed  to be a citizen of the world and the United Nations, who have honoured me, have  much to do if their world is to survive another fifty years.  

B: But you must remember the real is rational and the rational is real.  

P: Burkie, what a truly nebulous statement.  

B: It’s no use arguing with you. I am off to have a quick look at the test match.  History might have been very different if in 1789 the first overseas cricket team  had not stopped at Dover because of the bloody revolution. Thoughts of leg breaks and cover drives might have stopped the revolution but would they have  accepted the umpire’s word on leg before wicket and run outs?  

P: So now you are blaming the terror on me for not teaching them cricket. I  think it is time we declared, so up and away before you get another spell on earth  at the bottom of the pile this time.  

B: You can’t go on playing god forever. Remember that I said the wisdom of the  dead was capable of guiding the living. Goodbye you old Oxymoron, I’ll keep  working to get you sent down.  

P: Nonsense! As I said: ‘The rights of the living are beyond being constrained by the rights of the dead’. You are as stubborn as a mule. Humans are all made in  the same mould; it’s just that some are mouldier than others. Goodbye and keep  seeking the lumen gratiae (light of grace).

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